Episode 32

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Published on:

5th Nov 2024

How to Engage Clients 150 Times a Year: Strategies from John Prendergast

Episode #32: How to Engage Clients 150 Times a Year: Strategies from John Prendergast

Summary

In this episode of The Future-Ready Advisor, Sam Sivarajan speaks with John Prendergast, founder and CEO of Blue Leaf, a pioneering wealth management software firm that's reshaping client engagement. John shares his unique career journey and insights on using technology to enhance client experiences, offering a fresh look at what it means to be truly client-centered. This conversation dives into actionable strategies for increasing touchpoints, implementing a "noisy service" approach, and creating engagement loops that make clients feel connected, understood, and valued year-round.

Key Quote

"The most important lesson about client engagement is that clients don't register all of the messages you think you're sending." [33:44]

Main Topics Covered

  • Blue Leaf’s Mission to Enhance Client Engagement – Learn about the inception of Blue Leaf and its focus on transforming client interactions in wealth management [2:46].
  • 150+ Client Engagements Annually – Shifting from traditional touchpoints to achieve meaningful, consistent client contact throughout the year [6:16].
  • "Noisy Service" Strategy – Why regular, value-driven client communications can boost satisfaction and loyalty [10:28].
  • Creating Engagement Loops – Leveraging technology to establish continuous, impactful engagement with clients [12:50].
  • Building a Strong Client Narrative – Techniques to strengthen client relationships and counter external influences with a unified message [18:04].
  • The Role of Humility in Product Design – How humility and testing improve product design and client interactions [26:37].

Resources Mentioned

  • The Fifth Discipline by Peter Senge – A recommended read on systems thinking for advisors aiming to deepen client relationships [40:31].
  • Blue Leaf Software – Discover how Blue Leaf’s tools enhance automated, personalized client engagement [41:15].

Calls to Action

  • Subscribe to The Future-Ready Advisor – Don’t miss new episodes packed with insights for forward-thinking advisors! Subscribe on your preferred podcast platform.
  • Connect on LinkedIn – Join Sam Sivarajan and like-minded professionals to discuss the latest in client engagement and future-ready strategies.
  • Explore More Resources – Visit www.samsivarajan.com for additional tools, insights, and past episodes.


Transcript
Sam:

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Sam Sivarajan, and welcome to

Sam:

today's episode of The Future Ready Advisor. Today I'm here

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with John Prendergast, founder of Blue Leaf, a wealth

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management software firm with a focus on client engagement and

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experience. John, welcome to the show.

John:

Hey, Sam. Thanks for having me, man. I'm very excited

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for this conversation.

Sam:

Me as well. Let me quickly introduce you to our audience.

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John is the co-founder and CEO of Blue Leaf, and he also serves

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as the chief product officer. He is an experienced entrepreneur

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and senior executive as well as an active startup advisor. He's

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been part of six founding teams leading the product management,

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marketing and finance functions, and it is his background in

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banking and wealth management that has shaped that vision for

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Blue Leaf. John I'm looking forward to this conversation. I

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think client experience and client engagement is so

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important in our industry and technology is going to play a

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really critical part. But before we dive in, let's start. You've

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had a diverse career before becoming the CEO of Blue Leaf.

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Can you tell us a little bit about your professional journey

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and what led you to start Blue Leaf?

John:

Yes. Diverse. Some would say unfocused, though. For me,

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I'd say I have always followed my muse, and I've been lucky

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enough to operate at a pretty high level in in what I've tried.

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And, you know, I've always loved finance. And I actually paid my

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way through college and by training and made a fair amount

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of money in the very early days of Apple and I got hooked. And

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that's been a theme throughout. But of course, college for me

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was a computer science degree and an economics degree. So I've

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always combined those two things and then immediately while I'm

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in school, I decided I know majoring in computer science and

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economics. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to open a

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restaurant and I became one of the first Boston Chicken

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franchisees, if you remember that business became Boston

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Market and eventually was bought by McDonald's. But at I love

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business just generally, I love building teams and I love

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finance. And so I've explored all various aspect of of those

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businesses. I spent a couple of years as an advisor, so I knew

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how hard it really is. And I know that I'm not cut out for

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that. But combining that understanding and my knowledge

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of software and product development, that's what

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eventually led to.

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What niche or hole in the market led you to create Blue

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Leaf? What is it? What is the problem that Blue Leaf is

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solving in your view?

John:

Sure. I mean, when you talk creation, this is a very

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different time. We've been around since 2011, 2012 when we

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first served our very first customers. And at the time, the

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idea of an interactive client portal was actually novel that

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was new. And so that's sort of where we started. And that's

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been a thread throughout. Which is why we talk about client and

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engagement being sort of our North Star, because we believe

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that everything that an advisor does is about the client. If

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you're doing reporting, it's about the client. If you're

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doing trading and rebalancing, it's about the client. Even if

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you're doing billing in some back office processes, you can

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draw a direct line from whatever you do in your practice all the

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way out to the client. So, so that's what guides us. We think

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about how do we help the advisor do more and better for their

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clients, how do we enable them to do what they do and be more

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focused? And a big piece of that, we realized, is how engaged

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clients were with their advisors and how it was very challenging

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for advisors to stay in touch with clients at the cadence that

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is now required. And so so that became a real area of specialty

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for us, an area of focus. And and really everything we do is

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about supporting that that mission so that advisors can

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better serve their clients.

Sam:

One of the ways that advisors serve clients is this

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idea of touch points with clients. And

John:

Yeah.

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when we talked before, you mentioned that a good target

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number was it. To me an astounding number is a 70 to 75

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engagements a year. And you make the point, which I totally agree

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with, that quarterly statements and yearly reviews are not

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enough anymore. Can you talk a little bit about that?

John:

Yeah, sure. So I'm going to up that ante. I'm going to

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say that actually double that would be ideal. So up to 150

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touch points a year and that is what many of the very fastest

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growing advisors in the industry do. And it's what Jason Wenk did,

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the founder of Altruist, who was a customer of ours, and we

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really learned from people like him. But if you think about it

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to two things. One, if you imagine, you know, this 365 days

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a year, maybe you send out four quarterly reports, you might do

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an annual meeting or annual update with a couple of other

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touch points. You might get 15 touch points a year on in a

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typical advisory firm done traditionally. And so that

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leaves, you know what, 380 days a year where your clients are

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not hearing from you. So what is your service? What's your your

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your your service offering your services? Actually, silence.

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That's what you're delivering to clients. You're delivering

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silence, yet results, etc.. But that implies that the client

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will take those scattered touchpoints and put it together.

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That, Oh yeah, I need to pay attention to the results Sam's

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giving me. And that just isn't the way that people work. At the

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same time, the world has moved on and world has really changed.

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Where if you think about services like Netflix or

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Facebook, my guess is you have an email or another message in

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your inbox or on your mobile phone that has pinged you to

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give you a suggestion or some other value added connection to

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you that might tell you something great to watch on

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television tonight. And that might tell you your friend just

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did X and Y and Z. And we're used to being contacted almost

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daily by most of our favorite services and advice, just

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conceptually, advisors still live in the land of the thing

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that I personally do with my client. And what we're

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suggesting is the client engagement paradigm has shifted.

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It's much bigger. It's how does you how do you engage, but how

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does your firm engage, how to other employees engage with

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clients? It's how do you create content that engages clients?

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It's how do you support simple messaging and simple reporting

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that engages clients so that they're hearing from you two or

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three different times a week, but in different ways. I made a

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post the other day on LinkedIn and got a comment, you know, my

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God, I can't imagine. Come and go, you know, connecting with my

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clients that frequently and then I laid it out how? Well, once a

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week it might be the firm sending an email. Once a week it

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might be a report that sent automatically once a week or,

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you know, every other week. It might be an update about a

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service that you delivered or another another member of your

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team sending a video saying, Hey, Sam, we just did this for you.

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Just wanted to let you know. And none of those are redundant.

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They don't feel like you're hitting them over and over. I

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think conceptually where we where we break and we really

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think it's bad and clients would hate it is when we think about

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sending the same message over and over and over again. And

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that is not at all what we're recommending. No one would would

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want that. What we're talking about is finding a way to make

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your services more integrated with the life of your client.

Sam:

I really like that. John. to your point, it's not about

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hitting them over the head with the same message. It's about

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being creative, imaginative and unobtrusive. One of the things

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that you mentioned when we chatted before that really hit

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home with me is this idea of noisy service. Can you talk a

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little bit about that as as a as a way of dealing with this kind

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of touch point issue that we talked about?

John:

Absolutely. We love the idea of noisy service. So if

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you've never heard of noisy service, this is the idea that

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most of the things that you do in your firm for clients are

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silence. That, again, is the service you're tending to

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provide. It's it's. It's nothing. It's that tree falling in the

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forest. But what noisy service does is it says, okay, add 30 to

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60 seconds on that, that moment of service in the back office

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that might be a quick review of accounts. It might be a quick

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analysis to see if if something needs a rebalance and then

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simply report that to the client, maybe grabbing your phone and

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doing a quick little video that says, Hey, Sam, we just reviewed

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your accounts. We were trying to see if they need to be

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rebalanced. They look really great, Keep doing what you're

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doing and just want to check in. Whoops. And and you you touch

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them. Now you've made an intangible service, white,

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tangible. Not only that, but you've started to create a

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relationship potentially beyond you with the rest of your firm,

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with your service teammates and the people who also support your

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clients. It is a complete game changer. And we use a video

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service called Loom to do this. There are others. You could do

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it, and advisors that are doing this today have reported all

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kinds of benefits. The advisor gets their time back. The

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clients more comfortable talking to other other service members.

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The the client refers more because they feel like they're

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getting more service, even though it's the same amount of

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services before. They just know about it for the first time in

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most cases. So that's noisy service.

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I want to pick up on something that you mentioned,

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this is the emails that you get from Netflix or Spotify that

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we've suddenly become used to, And this is the idea of an

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engagement loop that

John:

Yes.

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Netflix or Spotify does. Can you explain the term and

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expand on how Blue Leaf captures that concept in the financial

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advice world and helps advisors create those sort of engagement

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loops?

John:

Yeah, absolutely. So if you think about most client

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portals or even mobile apps, they are kind of standalone

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experiences and they sit and they wait for somebody to show

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up because, oh, that client must have a better question. But

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Facebook isn't sitting there waiting for you to show up.

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They're reaching out. Netflix isn't sitting there waiting for

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you to show it. They're reaching out, reminding you of the value

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available to you and then creating simple ways for you to

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connect back. Right. So it's that outreach with a simple way

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to connect back that creates the loop of engagement. And with

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that, you can see engagement rates skyrocket, client

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satisfaction skyrocket. And we believe that all systems should

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be doing this. But of course that isn't the case. And maybe

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that's my product background come to come to bear here. But

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what we wanted to do is make sure that advisors were

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delivering to their clients the very best possible experience.

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And where you see that is in consumer services around the web.

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So we took that concept and we applied it squarely to a

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financial advisory business.

Sam:

That's an interesting concept, And when you were

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talking, it reminded me of my own experience. So I've signed

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up for a credit monitoring app, and something as mundane and

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relatively one dimensional as your credit rating and what's

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happening to your credit rating. This apps sends me one email a

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week at least, to say, hey, there is potential, new credit

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card that I could sign up for or say There has been activity in

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my credit report and, do I want to engage with it? So the idea

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of sending I would say, different types of touch points

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that encourages the client to at least have the choice whether

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they choose to engage with that or at the very least, it's a

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passive reminder that, I've got a team of a wealth advisor and

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their team working for me. Even when I'm not paying attention. I

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don't have to do anything more than just see that email, delete

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it. But I still register in my brain that I'm getting a touch

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point and I reach out for my firm. My advisor.

John:

Right. And I think the trick here and you used a really

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good example because in that example, you both had service

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oriented message and then promotional messaging and

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generally what we're recommending to most advisors is

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to, you know, severely limit the promotional messaging. What you

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want is lots and lots of value added content. So it might be an

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automated report that just simply says, you know, this is

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how your your your likelihood of your succeeding in your plan

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changed over the last month. It could be a message. That's the

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here's how your balance sheet changed or here's what happened

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this week in your account. Three very, very, very, very simple

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and it could also be on the content side. It could be you

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take your marketing, which most good marketing is going to be

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problem solution oriented. You know, did you just receive our

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use? Did you know that our issues can create a tax problem

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for you? If if so, here's the ways that you need to think

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about it. You should give us a call and we can help you and

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connect you with a tax professional, that sort of thing.

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Problem, solution oriented content, that's a very value add

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it, right? So so we think it's more about the value added touch

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points with information about how to solve problems,

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information about what's happening in my accounts,

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information about the kind of services we are providing to you,

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even though you're not aware of them in the in the background

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and in creating a volume of messaging based on that and it

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becomes quite powerful. And you also set at top of mind, you

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don't get referrals unless you are top of mind, right? That

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just doesn't happen. And what we've seen is the consistency of

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referrals really ramp up and or the volume. So it's it's quite a

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powerful combination.

Sam:

No, indeed. The advisers are working, as you say, when

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they're delivering what they're doing, when they're providing

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this quiet service. What they're not aware of in many cases are

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they are aware they're actually struggling behind the scenes

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with the narrative their clients are receiving from external

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sources, whether it is the, the latest influencer on social

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media, CNBC or Jim Cramer. so this is happening that the

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client is getting influenced or inundated with these messages.

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The adviser is perhaps not responding or not proactively

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responding to some of those things. How do you advise

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financial advisers to counteract these external influences and

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maintain client trust?

John:

Yeah. So when Jim Cramer honks his horn, when the latest

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influencer on Tik Tok, you know, tells your client that this is

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an and this is an insurance secret of the rich, you know,

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we've all seen these, right? When that happens, you have to

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be there. Alongside of that message, you have to be in your

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client's inbox or or otherwise contacting them with what we

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call a counter-narrative. So basically, this is the idea that

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you need to repeatedly tell your clients story back to them and

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how their money fits into the world and what's really

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happening so that they have a base narrative that they hang on

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to, that they then compare all of these other stupid messages

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to because then. It's your narrative is their narrative,

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and that is now the story that they live by. And those silly

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things coming in from media are a fact finding story. The

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problem when you don't show up in their inbox is the story is

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created

Sam:

Yup.

John:

by, you know, Jim Cramer or some Tik Tok influencer and

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that sort of becomes a jumbled mess

Sam:

Yup.

John:

in their story. And now when you say, don't worry,

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that's the fact fighting the story. So we advise creating a

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counter-narrative, the idea of a story, story, simple story,

John:

right? This isn't like paragraphs, but this idea. Look,

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your money is not the market. There are no secrets. There are

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simple tactics that, on repeat, get you where you need to go.

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And by sticking to this and being focused on the prize, eyes

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on the prize, you're going to get there. Anybody who tells you

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different is a charlatan and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

John:

Right. That's how you make your clients resilient to that

John:

nonsense on tech talk.

Sam:

Look, one of the interesting things is as much as

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that nonsense is there on TikTok if you get that core message of

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your story right, you're actually being provided

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opportunities to create touchpoints or have touchpoints

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with their clients. Because this narrative from Jim Cramer or

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influencers, etc. is a weekly thing. I mean, you don't have to

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respond every week.

John:

Daily. It's daily. It's daily out there. The

Sam:

You've.

John:

media never sees.

Sam:

An opportunity to you have an opportunity every time there

Sam:

is or periodically when you get these narratives to use that as

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a touchpoint. One of your hundred and 50 a year, etc.. I

Sam:

use that as an opportunity to provide the counter-narrative,

Sam:

but that becomes one of your touchpoints.

John:

Exactly. And look, we're not saying that anybody needs to

John:

go from, you know, 15 touch points a year to 150. But, you

John:

know, a ten tax increase just start. Right. The thing that you

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can add, right, if you if you're a new customer on blue Leaf, you

John:

might add those automated, you know, financial updates. If

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you've got marketing materials. Bill, take a look at that. Could

John:

those be repurposed to point directly to to clients? In many

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cases they can, and they'd be very value added, right? Just

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find the next thing and take that one next step. Right. You

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don't have to go all the way to the top of the mountain, you

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know, climb up 100 feet, see? See what you think, see how the

John:

air is. And but take it a step at a time.

Sam:

Totally agree. All of this is small wins. You don't have to

Sam:

run a marathon, as you know, one kilometer at a time. It isn't.

John:

Exactly.

Sam:

You don't run it all at once. Now, let's shift gears a

Sam:

little bit. Technology is, a very important part of all

Sam:

industries, but particular wealth management. But I would

Sam:

say the retail or the high net worth wealth space. Technology

Sam:

often gets criticized for poor service pricing and usability.

Sam:

But the end of the day, if the advisor and the client are not

Sam:

using the technology in the way it's designed, it's not fit for

Sam:

purpose.

Sam:

What would you say about that? And about a concept that I just

Sam:

laid out? And how is your company addressing these issues

Sam:

to provide a more seamless and efficient experience for

Sam:

advisors and their clients?

John:

Yeah, there's. There's a lot to unpack there, Sam. So. So

John:

let's take the idea of. Of usability usage and usability.

John:

You know, this is one of the reasons that we're so focused on

John:

client engagement, right? One of the biggest complaints we hear

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from advisors is I've got a I've got a portal and no one use it

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uses it. And some advisors assume that's because my clients

John:

aren't online or they don't want this because they haven't asked

John:

for it. But of course, they're on Facebook. They're doing a

John:

bunch of other things. So it's very clear that your clients are

John:

online. It's just that the thing you've handed them just isn't

John:

engaging. Right? So. So not all technology, not all client

John:

portals are created equal. They just aren't. And it's why very

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few companies like us provide engagement statistics. Ours is

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right on our dashboard is we think you ought to know. So so

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one is you have to actually have engaging technology for all of

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this to work. The other disappointment, of course, is

John:

pricing. Many advisors this year in particular have experienced

John:

big price increases from some of the larger players in the

John:

industry. Why? Because they felt like they could, right. You know,

John:

the consolidation of TD and Schwab made everybody feel like,

John:

oh, look, consolidation. Now there's less choice. So let's

John:

let's, you know, jam prices up and they're pretty big price

John:

increases. We have a pretty different philosophy at Blue

John:

Leaf. We've held our pricing for years since 2014 when we we

John:

haven't had a price increase. The only increases our customers

John:

experience are if they buy additional services or if they

John:

use the the system more. We think that's fair and it's the

John:

right way to do business. We're not trying to gouge. We're

John:

trying to have a fair, very long term relationship. And we've got

John:

hundreds and hundreds of customers that have been with us

John:

between five and ten years. So, you know, we're clearly doing

John:

something right. You know, the other thing. Technology alone

John:

doesn't solve these problems. Right. Technology is a tool, but

John:

technology by itself does not create. You know, It's all right.

John:

Drill as an example. Right. The drill by itself doesn't create

John:

the whole. Right. You need the drill. Plus plus the person. And

John:

so this idea of support, right, that you mentioned is really,

John:

really critical. And everybody talks about having great support.

John:

And but it's such a hard thing to evaluate at the outset. So we

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talk a lot about our own statistics and how we've got

John:

between 92 and 98% client satisfaction on any given month

John:

that we have time to time to resolution of under 10 minutes

John:

are on our queue. But I think structurally, the thing that is

John:

so different about what we do at Blue Leaf is unlike virtually

John:

every other provider, we actually directly support your

John:

clients. Right? So if your clients are on our platform, you

John:

don't support them. You don't have to deal with password reset

John:

or questions about account aggregation or any of those

John:

things. Our team does that for you as an extension of your team,

John:

and that's really, really unique. And we've had to do a lot of

John:

gymnastics to organize our team to be able to stretch that far.

John:

Because if you think about it, that means a blue leaf support

John:

team for the same number of customers. Our number of

John:

advisors is is supporting somewhere between 50 and 100

John:

times more users than your typical, you know, support team,

John:

which we're quite proud of.

Sam:

And along those lines, simplicity and product design

Sam:

and incorporating the behavioral aspect of client interactions is

Sam:

very important.

Sam:

How do you create a simple, yet effective engagement system with

Sam:

blue leaf?

John:

Yeah. So if you want to create an easy to use service or

John:

product, there's just one word you need to bear in mind.

John:

Humility.

John:

Now, what do I mean by that?

John:

It is about suspending your assumptions about what that

John:

client needs or what that user needs, what that adviser needs

John:

in our case. You know, we we we have obviously advisers and

John:

clients as users, and it is about actually testing that.

John:

It's not even necessarily listening to what people say.

John:

It's watching very carefully what they do and being humble

John:

about what we think we know and what we don't know. And we rely

John:

very heavily, heavily on testing in order to do that. So that is

John:

that is a huge key because most adviser software is built in the

John:

land of shoulds. You should have this, You should do this. You

John:

always need this. And what we've found by being humble and

John:

focusing on direct research is that most of those are just

John:

illusion, just nonsense. The other thing is, and this is kind

John:

of the bonus tip if you're trying to make something really

John:

simple, focus on the little tiny details. And what I mean by the

John:

little tiny details in, say, a piece of software and its

John:

interface, little details like what is that button called?

John:

What's that menu item labeled, Right. How many clicks do I need

John:

to get? That's an obvious one. But the little elements of copy

John:

and the language that you use is that the language that your your

John:

customer uses, your client uses.

John:

In most cases, it's the language that the product team or the

John:

engineers thought they should use, as opposed to being careful,

John:

very thoughtful, and again, using that as a bit of a

John:

research element when people are using your software to figure

John:

out is that what does that do what they thought it did based

John:

on the name, if not, find another name, right? So that so

John:

that the function and the intention are aligned right.

John:

Those are those are the two things that I'd say you'd need

John:

to do to create really simple software. And what you'll notice

John:

is in both cases it requires a lot of extra work. Right.

John:

There's a lot of extra research and observation and patience,

John:

which is in short supply, particularly in technology and

John:

it and it requires you to understand that you're going to

John:

be wrong and be willing to iterate and fix things quickly

John:

so that that's what we've learned.

Sam:

that's a great point. And I can see the parallels from the

Sam:

technology side of the equation to even the way advisors are

Sam:

interacting in their practice or with their clients. I mean, this

Sam:

idea of testing approaches, testing, terminology, testing

Sam:

and, getting feedback from clients, what resonates with

Sam:

them, what their key pain points are, there is a danger that we

Sam:

all make in assuming that this is their pain point because the

Sam:

industry tells us, or even assuming that the pain point

Sam:

that the client expressed four years ago when they signed up

Sam:

with you continues to be their pain point. So I think this idea

Sam:

of testing and asking and being humble enough to say that, the

Sam:

world is changing and that we need to be aware perhaps of how

Sam:

that's changing is pretty critical.

John:

That last point is so important. This

John:

most experienced advisers have this sort of danger point that

John:

they flirt with all the time, which is experience. And

John:

experience is the enemy of humility. And what I'd ask

John:

experienced advisers to do is to go back and recheck their

John:

assumptions from time to time about what clients want. I don't

John:

think your knowledge of managing money or anything that doesn't

John:

change that much. The environment does, and you need

John:

to keep up with that. And I would think about clients wants

John:

and needs in a similar way, right? That's the environment

John:

you're operating in. You can't simply assume that what people

John:

needed 20 years ago is what they need and want today. And most

John:

advisors take silence as a cent right silence, because my my

John:

clients didn't ask for this. Or they didn't tell me they wanted

John:

X, Y, Z. It's not their job to tell you what they want. It's

John:

your job to go find out.

Sam:

Totally. And as you're talking, it reminds me of an

Sam:

experience I had a number of years ago at the firm. I was at

Sam:

we were trying to win the CEO of a public company as a client.

Sam:

And after many unsuccessful meetings, it was one of my

Sam:

investment counselors who figured out that it was the

Sam:

CEO's wife that made the personal decisions. So she then

Sam:

started to build a relationship with the wife, and that led to a

Sam:

long standing, successful billionaire client, all because,

Sam:

as you said, she challenged our initial assumptions and she

Sam:

looked at things. She was humble enough to look at it and sit

Sam:

there and look at it clearly and objectively to say is is what we

Sam:

think the case really the case? And I think experience is

Sam:

important. I think it is so important. I'm such a big

Sam:

believer that you learn more from experience than anything

Sam:

else. But if you want to continue to learn, we always

Sam:

have to have a degree or a dose of humility that sits there and

Sam:

says, okay, is this still the case? Right? Is this still the

Sam:

right belief in this case?

John:

And experience can lead to assumptions, Right? And to me,

John:

one of the greatest business lessons I've ever learned came

John:

from a movie in the seventies. The Bad News Bears, Right. If

John:

you've if you've never seen it, there's a there's a scene where

John:

they talk about no assuming because assuming makes an ass

John:

out of you and me. And I replay that an awful lot in my in my

John:

business life, because every time I've gotten bitten, it's

John:

because there was an assumption that went unchallenged.

Sam:

True. Too true. What's the most important lesson you've

Sam:

learned about client engagement throughout your career?

John:

The most important lesson about client engagement is that

John:

they don't

John:

register all of the messages you think you're sending

John:

that

John:

maybe one out of three or four messages lands and they remember

John:

it. Maybe if you're really, really, really lucky. So even if

John:

you are sending 100 touchpoints a year, they might register that

John:

you've sent them. You know, a couple of times a month. I know

John:

that sounds insane. It's showing up in your inbox. But people

John:

aren't thinking about you.

Sam:

Mm hmm.

John:

And that's actually the point.

Sam:

Mm hmm.

John:

Right. No one cares about what you're what you're doing or

John:

the things that you've done. They care about their life. They

John:

care about their problems. And it's only when you're present,

John:

when they need something like what you've got, where they

John:

connect the two. Otherwise, it's just noise and it just gets

John:

suppressed. So you need to be there an awful lot to make them

John:

feel like you're there even a little bit.

Sam:

That's an interesting point. So because they're not

Sam:

registering to all of your outreach or engagements. one

Sam:

solution, as you say, is to send and to end up with the less that

Sam:

they're getting. Is there something in the content or the

Sam:

type of messaging or how your messaging that can help,

Sam:

increase, call it the open rates or the registering rates that

Sam:

their clients may have?

John:

See, we're not talking about that. What we're talking

John:

about is human behavior and human cognition. And I don't

John:

know if there's an advisor out there who knows how to change

John:

that. Man, we need to talk. I bet there's $1,000,000,000

John:

product in that. But this is simply the way that people work.

John:

Right. If you think about the example of the Netflix or

John:

Facebook services that we've talked about.

John:

Even as many messages as you receive. My guess is you can't

John:

recount that many. When you think about it, yeah, I see them

John:

often, but you have no idea how frequently it just. It doesn't.

John:

It doesn't stay. It doesn't stick. Right. What sticks is the

John:

sense that that's a service. That I'm connected with, that

John:

that's touching me frequently. So, yes, you want to increase

John:

the relevance of individual messages? Absolutely. No

John:

question. But there's a real limit to how much one message is

John:

going to be perfect and it's going to land and everyone's

John:

going to cheer. No one cheers for your content. No one's going

John:

to cheer. Oh, wow. That is a great quarterly report. Have you

John:

ever seen that happen? Of course not. That that is. That just

John:

isn't how people work. But people remember how you make

John:

them feel. They don't remember the facts. But they remember how

John:

you make them feel and how you make them feel when you're

John:

sending out value added messages about them, about their money,

John:

about problems they may have, about things you've done for

John:

them. They feel cared for. They are sure you care about them.

John:

And many advisors do a good job at making their clients feel

John:

cared for. Don't get me wrong. But this is another way to

John:

ensure across the entire client base, if you've got 100 200

John:

clients that they feel that this is the way to systematize

Sam:

And scale.

John:

that sense of caring and scale it. Yeah, exactly.

Sam:

On that note, can you give an example of how an adviser

Sam:

that you work with has used your platform to transform their

Sam:

client service model? What, perhaps might have been their

Sam:

specific challenges? And how did Blue Leaf's platform help them

Sam:

overcome them.

John:

Sure. This is actually an older story, but it's one of my

John:

favorite favorites because it was it was well ahead of its

John:

time. But the best transformational story that that

John:

comes to mind for me about how Blu leaf changed a business or a

John:

service model for an advisor is an advisor. You know, $100

John:

million firms, a good sized firm, not huge, not not small. Who

John:

wanted to simplify their quarterly reporting process.

John:

They came to us for automated reporting, very traditional need.

John:

And within about six months, I saw a story on the Wall Street

John:

Journal, their online edition, that highlights advisors. And it

John:

was a story about this advisor who killed the quarterly report

John:

and and essentially eliminated the traditional quarterly report

John:

in form in favor of more frequent touch points. And this

John:

saved that firm. I think what she told me at the time was a 3

John:

to 4 man days a month that they were that they were spending to

John:

sort of make sure that all of this stuff was was together. And

John:

more importantly, she said, was it really ratcheted up their

John:

growth and their referrals.

Sam:

Great.

John:

So you land on the cover of the Wall Street Journal and

John:

your business is better off. That feels like a win win win.

Sam:

Sounds like it to me. John We're coming to the end of our

Sam:

podcast, so I have a few final rapidfire questions for you that

Sam:

I ask all my.

John:

Sure.

Sam:

So number one, professionally, what is the most

Sam:

important lesson you've learned over the years?

John:

Systems thinking. So everything that we do or operate

John:

in is part of a larger system, which is why so many things that

John:

we attempt have unintended consequences. And if we start by

John:

thinking about the end goal we want and trying to understand

John:

the system we're operating in. We tend to be much more

John:

effective. There was a wonderful book by a guy named Peter Sanga

John:

called The Fifth Discipline. It is about systems thinking. It

John:

changed the way I viewed the world. And I would highly

John:

recommend it.

Sam:

Right. I know the book and I totally agree. It's a

Sam:

wonderful book. What is one practical tip you would offer

Sam:

listeners keen on applying your insights on client engagement?

John:

Pick up on either noisy service as a model or on

John:

repurposing your marketing content to be problem solution

John:

focused and sending that to your clients. Either one will get you

John:

another 25 to 50 touch points a year and your clients will be

John:

better off. You could always come to blue if and get some

John:

other automated stuff, But. But those things are things you can

John:

do right now to day to change the way that you engage with

John:

clients.

Sam:

It's been a great discussion. If listeners want to

Sam:

learn more about you or find out about your work, where do they

Sam:

go?

John:

Easiest place is LinkedIn. I'm just, you know, John

John:

Prendergast is my handle on LinkedIn. We're active there

John:

every day and it's very easy to get hold of me there.

Sam:

Awesome. John, thank you for joining us today on the

Sam:

Future-Ready Advisor podcast.

John:

My pleasure. It was really fun.

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About the Podcast

The Future-Ready Advisor
As a financial advisor, you’re working in a crowded market, and to be successful, you need to differentiate yourself from the competition. How do you do that? How do you rise above the noise and deliver success for your clients and your business? And, how do you do that when your time is already taxed?

That’s where The Future-Ready Advisor comes in. Host Sam Sivarajan talks with investment experts and top advisors to explore the pain points that financial advisors face, the pain points that you might also face, and how you can best position your practice for a successful future.

Whether you're a seasoned advisor looking for new ways to grow your business, or a new advisor just starting out, The Future-Ready Advisor is the perfect resource for you to learn how to differentiate yourself in a crowded marketplace, solve your pain points, and leverage behavioral coaching to take your financial advisory practice to the next level.

Learn more and grab free resources and exclusive bonus content at www.samsivarajan.com.
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