How to Engage Clients 150 Times a Year: Strategies from John Prendergast
Episode #32: How to Engage Clients 150 Times a Year: Strategies from John Prendergast
Summary
In this episode of The Future-Ready Advisor, Sam Sivarajan speaks with John Prendergast, founder and CEO of Blue Leaf, a pioneering wealth management software firm that's reshaping client engagement. John shares his unique career journey and insights on using technology to enhance client experiences, offering a fresh look at what it means to be truly client-centered. This conversation dives into actionable strategies for increasing touchpoints, implementing a "noisy service" approach, and creating engagement loops that make clients feel connected, understood, and valued year-round.
Key Quote
"The most important lesson about client engagement is that clients don't register all of the messages you think you're sending." [33:44]
Main Topics Covered
- Blue Leaf’s Mission to Enhance Client Engagement – Learn about the inception of Blue Leaf and its focus on transforming client interactions in wealth management [2:46].
- 150+ Client Engagements Annually – Shifting from traditional touchpoints to achieve meaningful, consistent client contact throughout the year [6:16].
- "Noisy Service" Strategy – Why regular, value-driven client communications can boost satisfaction and loyalty [10:28].
- Creating Engagement Loops – Leveraging technology to establish continuous, impactful engagement with clients [12:50].
- Building a Strong Client Narrative – Techniques to strengthen client relationships and counter external influences with a unified message [18:04].
- The Role of Humility in Product Design – How humility and testing improve product design and client interactions [26:37].
Resources Mentioned
- The Fifth Discipline by Peter Senge – A recommended read on systems thinking for advisors aiming to deepen client relationships [40:31].
- Blue Leaf Software – Discover how Blue Leaf’s tools enhance automated, personalized client engagement [41:15].
Calls to Action
- Subscribe to The Future-Ready Advisor – Don’t miss new episodes packed with insights for forward-thinking advisors! Subscribe on your preferred podcast platform.
- Connect on LinkedIn – Join Sam Sivarajan and like-minded professionals to discuss the latest in client engagement and future-ready strategies.
- Explore More Resources – Visit www.samsivarajan.com for additional tools, insights, and past episodes.
Transcript
Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Sam Sivarajan, and welcome to
Sam:today's episode of The Future Ready Advisor. Today I'm here
Sam:with John Prendergast, founder of Blue Leaf, a wealth
Sam:management software firm with a focus on client engagement and
Sam:experience. John, welcome to the show.
John:Hey, Sam. Thanks for having me, man. I'm very excited
John:for this conversation.
Sam:Me as well. Let me quickly introduce you to our audience.
Sam:John is the co-founder and CEO of Blue Leaf, and he also serves
Sam:as the chief product officer. He is an experienced entrepreneur
Sam:and senior executive as well as an active startup advisor. He's
Sam:been part of six founding teams leading the product management,
Sam:marketing and finance functions, and it is his background in
Sam:banking and wealth management that has shaped that vision for
Sam:Blue Leaf. John I'm looking forward to this conversation. I
Sam:think client experience and client engagement is so
Sam:important in our industry and technology is going to play a
Sam:really critical part. But before we dive in, let's start. You've
Sam:had a diverse career before becoming the CEO of Blue Leaf.
Sam:Can you tell us a little bit about your professional journey
Sam:and what led you to start Blue Leaf?
John:Yes. Diverse. Some would say unfocused, though. For me,
John:I'd say I have always followed my muse, and I've been lucky
John:enough to operate at a pretty high level in in what I've tried.
John:And, you know, I've always loved finance. And I actually paid my
John:way through college and by training and made a fair amount
John:of money in the very early days of Apple and I got hooked. And
John:that's been a theme throughout. But of course, college for me
John:was a computer science degree and an economics degree. So I've
John:always combined those two things and then immediately while I'm
John:in school, I decided I know majoring in computer science and
John:economics. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to open a
John:restaurant and I became one of the first Boston Chicken
John:franchisees, if you remember that business became Boston
John:Market and eventually was bought by McDonald's. But at I love
John:business just generally, I love building teams and I love
John:finance. And so I've explored all various aspect of of those
John:businesses. I spent a couple of years as an advisor, so I knew
John:how hard it really is. And I know that I'm not cut out for
John:that. But combining that understanding and my knowledge
John:of software and product development, that's what
John:eventually led to.
Sam:What niche or hole in the market led you to create Blue
Sam:Leaf? What is it? What is the problem that Blue Leaf is
Sam:solving in your view?
John:Sure. I mean, when you talk creation, this is a very
John:different time. We've been around since 2011, 2012 when we
John:first served our very first customers. And at the time, the
John:idea of an interactive client portal was actually novel that
John:was new. And so that's sort of where we started. And that's
John:been a thread throughout. Which is why we talk about client and
John:engagement being sort of our North Star, because we believe
John:that everything that an advisor does is about the client. If
John:you're doing reporting, it's about the client. If you're
John:doing trading and rebalancing, it's about the client. Even if
John:you're doing billing in some back office processes, you can
John:draw a direct line from whatever you do in your practice all the
John:way out to the client. So, so that's what guides us. We think
John:about how do we help the advisor do more and better for their
John:clients, how do we enable them to do what they do and be more
John:focused? And a big piece of that, we realized, is how engaged
John:clients were with their advisors and how it was very challenging
John:for advisors to stay in touch with clients at the cadence that
John:is now required. And so so that became a real area of specialty
John:for us, an area of focus. And and really everything we do is
John:about supporting that that mission so that advisors can
John:better serve their clients.
Sam:One of the ways that advisors serve clients is this
Sam:idea of touch points with clients. And
John:Yeah.
Sam:when we talked before, you mentioned that a good target
Sam:number was it. To me an astounding number is a 70 to 75
Sam:engagements a year. And you make the point, which I totally agree
Sam:with, that quarterly statements and yearly reviews are not
Sam:enough anymore. Can you talk a little bit about that?
John:Yeah, sure. So I'm going to up that ante. I'm going to
John:say that actually double that would be ideal. So up to 150
John:touch points a year and that is what many of the very fastest
John:growing advisors in the industry do. And it's what Jason Wenk did,
John:the founder of Altruist, who was a customer of ours, and we
John:really learned from people like him. But if you think about it
John:to two things. One, if you imagine, you know, this 365 days
John:a year, maybe you send out four quarterly reports, you might do
John:an annual meeting or annual update with a couple of other
John:touch points. You might get 15 touch points a year on in a
John:typical advisory firm done traditionally. And so that
John:leaves, you know what, 380 days a year where your clients are
John:not hearing from you. So what is your service? What's your your
John:your your service offering your services? Actually, silence.
John:That's what you're delivering to clients. You're delivering
John:silence, yet results, etc.. But that implies that the client
John:will take those scattered touchpoints and put it together.
John:That, Oh yeah, I need to pay attention to the results Sam's
John:giving me. And that just isn't the way that people work. At the
John:same time, the world has moved on and world has really changed.
John:Where if you think about services like Netflix or
John:Facebook, my guess is you have an email or another message in
John:your inbox or on your mobile phone that has pinged you to
John:give you a suggestion or some other value added connection to
John:you that might tell you something great to watch on
John:television tonight. And that might tell you your friend just
John:did X and Y and Z. And we're used to being contacted almost
John:daily by most of our favorite services and advice, just
John:conceptually, advisors still live in the land of the thing
John:that I personally do with my client. And what we're
John:suggesting is the client engagement paradigm has shifted.
John:It's much bigger. It's how does you how do you engage, but how
John:does your firm engage, how to other employees engage with
John:clients? It's how do you create content that engages clients?
John:It's how do you support simple messaging and simple reporting
John:that engages clients so that they're hearing from you two or
John:three different times a week, but in different ways. I made a
John:post the other day on LinkedIn and got a comment, you know, my
John:God, I can't imagine. Come and go, you know, connecting with my
John:clients that frequently and then I laid it out how? Well, once a
John:week it might be the firm sending an email. Once a week it
John:might be a report that sent automatically once a week or,
John:you know, every other week. It might be an update about a
John:service that you delivered or another another member of your
John:team sending a video saying, Hey, Sam, we just did this for you.
John:Just wanted to let you know. And none of those are redundant.
John:They don't feel like you're hitting them over and over. I
John:think conceptually where we where we break and we really
John:think it's bad and clients would hate it is when we think about
John:sending the same message over and over and over again. And
John:that is not at all what we're recommending. No one would would
John:want that. What we're talking about is finding a way to make
John:your services more integrated with the life of your client.
Sam:I really like that. John. to your point, it's not about
Sam:hitting them over the head with the same message. It's about
Sam:being creative, imaginative and unobtrusive. One of the things
Sam:that you mentioned when we chatted before that really hit
Sam:home with me is this idea of noisy service. Can you talk a
Sam:little bit about that as as a as a way of dealing with this kind
Sam:of touch point issue that we talked about?
John:Absolutely. We love the idea of noisy service. So if
John:you've never heard of noisy service, this is the idea that
John:most of the things that you do in your firm for clients are
John:silence. That, again, is the service you're tending to
John:provide. It's it's. It's nothing. It's that tree falling in the
John:forest. But what noisy service does is it says, okay, add 30 to
John:60 seconds on that, that moment of service in the back office
John:that might be a quick review of accounts. It might be a quick
John:analysis to see if if something needs a rebalance and then
John:simply report that to the client, maybe grabbing your phone and
John:doing a quick little video that says, Hey, Sam, we just reviewed
John:your accounts. We were trying to see if they need to be
John:rebalanced. They look really great, Keep doing what you're
John:doing and just want to check in. Whoops. And and you you touch
John:them. Now you've made an intangible service, white,
John:tangible. Not only that, but you've started to create a
John:relationship potentially beyond you with the rest of your firm,
John:with your service teammates and the people who also support your
John:clients. It is a complete game changer. And we use a video
John:service called Loom to do this. There are others. You could do
John:it, and advisors that are doing this today have reported all
John:kinds of benefits. The advisor gets their time back. The
John:clients more comfortable talking to other other service members.
John:The the client refers more because they feel like they're
John:getting more service, even though it's the same amount of
John:services before. They just know about it for the first time in
John:most cases. So that's noisy service.
Sam:I want to pick up on something that you mentioned,
Sam:this is the emails that you get from Netflix or Spotify that
Sam:we've suddenly become used to, And this is the idea of an
Sam:engagement loop that
John:Yes.
Sam:Netflix or Spotify does. Can you explain the term and
Sam:expand on how Blue Leaf captures that concept in the financial
Sam:advice world and helps advisors create those sort of engagement
Sam:loops?
John:Yeah, absolutely. So if you think about most client
John:portals or even mobile apps, they are kind of standalone
John:experiences and they sit and they wait for somebody to show
John:up because, oh, that client must have a better question. But
John:Facebook isn't sitting there waiting for you to show up.
John:They're reaching out. Netflix isn't sitting there waiting for
John:you to show it. They're reaching out, reminding you of the value
John:available to you and then creating simple ways for you to
John:connect back. Right. So it's that outreach with a simple way
John:to connect back that creates the loop of engagement. And with
John:that, you can see engagement rates skyrocket, client
John:satisfaction skyrocket. And we believe that all systems should
John:be doing this. But of course that isn't the case. And maybe
John:that's my product background come to come to bear here. But
John:what we wanted to do is make sure that advisors were
John:delivering to their clients the very best possible experience.
John:And where you see that is in consumer services around the web.
John:So we took that concept and we applied it squarely to a
John:financial advisory business.
Sam:That's an interesting concept, And when you were
Sam:talking, it reminded me of my own experience. So I've signed
Sam:up for a credit monitoring app, and something as mundane and
Sam:relatively one dimensional as your credit rating and what's
Sam:happening to your credit rating. This apps sends me one email a
Sam:week at least, to say, hey, there is potential, new credit
Sam:card that I could sign up for or say There has been activity in
Sam:my credit report and, do I want to engage with it? So the idea
Sam:of sending I would say, different types of touch points
Sam:that encourages the client to at least have the choice whether
Sam:they choose to engage with that or at the very least, it's a
Sam:passive reminder that, I've got a team of a wealth advisor and
Sam:their team working for me. Even when I'm not paying attention. I
Sam:don't have to do anything more than just see that email, delete
Sam:it. But I still register in my brain that I'm getting a touch
Sam:point and I reach out for my firm. My advisor.
John:Right. And I think the trick here and you used a really
John:good example because in that example, you both had service
John:oriented message and then promotional messaging and
John:generally what we're recommending to most advisors is
John:to, you know, severely limit the promotional messaging. What you
John:want is lots and lots of value added content. So it might be an
John:automated report that just simply says, you know, this is
John:how your your your likelihood of your succeeding in your plan
John:changed over the last month. It could be a message. That's the
John:here's how your balance sheet changed or here's what happened
John:this week in your account. Three very, very, very, very simple
John:and it could also be on the content side. It could be you
John:take your marketing, which most good marketing is going to be
John:problem solution oriented. You know, did you just receive our
John:use? Did you know that our issues can create a tax problem
John:for you? If if so, here's the ways that you need to think
John:about it. You should give us a call and we can help you and
John:connect you with a tax professional, that sort of thing.
John:Problem, solution oriented content, that's a very value add
John:it, right? So so we think it's more about the value added touch
John:points with information about how to solve problems,
John:information about what's happening in my accounts,
John:information about the kind of services we are providing to you,
John:even though you're not aware of them in the in the background
John:and in creating a volume of messaging based on that and it
John:becomes quite powerful. And you also set at top of mind, you
John:don't get referrals unless you are top of mind, right? That
John:just doesn't happen. And what we've seen is the consistency of
John:referrals really ramp up and or the volume. So it's it's quite a
John:powerful combination.
Sam:No, indeed. The advisers are working, as you say, when
Sam:they're delivering what they're doing, when they're providing
Sam:this quiet service. What they're not aware of in many cases are
Sam:they are aware they're actually struggling behind the scenes
Sam:with the narrative their clients are receiving from external
Sam:sources, whether it is the, the latest influencer on social
Sam:media, CNBC or Jim Cramer. so this is happening that the
Sam:client is getting influenced or inundated with these messages.
Sam:The adviser is perhaps not responding or not proactively
Sam:responding to some of those things. How do you advise
Sam:financial advisers to counteract these external influences and
Sam:maintain client trust?
John:Yeah. So when Jim Cramer honks his horn, when the latest
John:influencer on Tik Tok, you know, tells your client that this is
John:an and this is an insurance secret of the rich, you know,
John:we've all seen these, right? When that happens, you have to
John:be there. Alongside of that message, you have to be in your
John:client's inbox or or otherwise contacting them with what we
John:call a counter-narrative. So basically, this is the idea that
John:you need to repeatedly tell your clients story back to them and
John:how their money fits into the world and what's really
John:happening so that they have a base narrative that they hang on
John:to, that they then compare all of these other stupid messages
John:to because then. It's your narrative is their narrative,
John:and that is now the story that they live by. And those silly
John:things coming in from media are a fact finding story. The
John:problem when you don't show up in their inbox is the story is
John:created
Sam:Yup.
John:by, you know, Jim Cramer or some Tik Tok influencer and
John:that sort of becomes a jumbled mess
Sam:Yup.
John:in their story. And now when you say, don't worry,
John:that's the fact fighting the story. So we advise creating a
John:counter-narrative, the idea of a story, story, simple story,
John:right? This isn't like paragraphs, but this idea. Look,
John:your money is not the market. There are no secrets. There are
John:simple tactics that, on repeat, get you where you need to go.
John:And by sticking to this and being focused on the prize, eyes
John:on the prize, you're going to get there. Anybody who tells you
John:different is a charlatan and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
John:Right. That's how you make your clients resilient to that
John:nonsense on tech talk.
Sam:Look, one of the interesting things is as much as
Sam:that nonsense is there on TikTok if you get that core message of
Sam:your story right, you're actually being provided
Sam:opportunities to create touchpoints or have touchpoints
Sam:with their clients. Because this narrative from Jim Cramer or
Sam:influencers, etc. is a weekly thing. I mean, you don't have to
Sam:respond every week.
John:Daily. It's daily. It's daily out there. The
Sam:You've.
John:media never sees.
Sam:An opportunity to you have an opportunity every time there
Sam:is or periodically when you get these narratives to use that as
Sam:a touchpoint. One of your hundred and 50 a year, etc.. I
Sam:use that as an opportunity to provide the counter-narrative,
Sam:but that becomes one of your touchpoints.
John:Exactly. And look, we're not saying that anybody needs to
John:go from, you know, 15 touch points a year to 150. But, you
John:know, a ten tax increase just start. Right. The thing that you
John:can add, right, if you if you're a new customer on blue Leaf, you
John:might add those automated, you know, financial updates. If
John:you've got marketing materials. Bill, take a look at that. Could
John:those be repurposed to point directly to to clients? In many
John:cases they can, and they'd be very value added, right? Just
John:find the next thing and take that one next step. Right. You
John:don't have to go all the way to the top of the mountain, you
John:know, climb up 100 feet, see? See what you think, see how the
John:air is. And but take it a step at a time.
Sam:Totally agree. All of this is small wins. You don't have to
Sam:run a marathon, as you know, one kilometer at a time. It isn't.
John:Exactly.
Sam:You don't run it all at once. Now, let's shift gears a
Sam:little bit. Technology is, a very important part of all
Sam:industries, but particular wealth management. But I would
Sam:say the retail or the high net worth wealth space. Technology
Sam:often gets criticized for poor service pricing and usability.
Sam:But the end of the day, if the advisor and the client are not
Sam:using the technology in the way it's designed, it's not fit for
Sam:purpose.
Sam:What would you say about that? And about a concept that I just
Sam:laid out? And how is your company addressing these issues
Sam:to provide a more seamless and efficient experience for
Sam:advisors and their clients?
John:Yeah, there's. There's a lot to unpack there, Sam. So. So
John:let's take the idea of. Of usability usage and usability.
John:You know, this is one of the reasons that we're so focused on
John:client engagement, right? One of the biggest complaints we hear
John:from advisors is I've got a I've got a portal and no one use it
John:uses it. And some advisors assume that's because my clients
John:aren't online or they don't want this because they haven't asked
John:for it. But of course, they're on Facebook. They're doing a
John:bunch of other things. So it's very clear that your clients are
John:online. It's just that the thing you've handed them just isn't
John:engaging. Right? So. So not all technology, not all client
John:portals are created equal. They just aren't. And it's why very
John:few companies like us provide engagement statistics. Ours is
John:right on our dashboard is we think you ought to know. So so
John:one is you have to actually have engaging technology for all of
John:this to work. The other disappointment, of course, is
John:pricing. Many advisors this year in particular have experienced
John:big price increases from some of the larger players in the
John:industry. Why? Because they felt like they could, right. You know,
John:the consolidation of TD and Schwab made everybody feel like,
John:oh, look, consolidation. Now there's less choice. So let's
John:let's, you know, jam prices up and they're pretty big price
John:increases. We have a pretty different philosophy at Blue
John:Leaf. We've held our pricing for years since 2014 when we we
John:haven't had a price increase. The only increases our customers
John:experience are if they buy additional services or if they
John:use the the system more. We think that's fair and it's the
John:right way to do business. We're not trying to gouge. We're
John:trying to have a fair, very long term relationship. And we've got
John:hundreds and hundreds of customers that have been with us
John:between five and ten years. So, you know, we're clearly doing
John:something right. You know, the other thing. Technology alone
John:doesn't solve these problems. Right. Technology is a tool, but
John:technology by itself does not create. You know, It's all right.
John:Drill as an example. Right. The drill by itself doesn't create
John:the whole. Right. You need the drill. Plus plus the person. And
John:so this idea of support, right, that you mentioned is really,
John:really critical. And everybody talks about having great support.
John:And but it's such a hard thing to evaluate at the outset. So we
John:talk a lot about our own statistics and how we've got
John:between 92 and 98% client satisfaction on any given month
John:that we have time to time to resolution of under 10 minutes
John:are on our queue. But I think structurally, the thing that is
John:so different about what we do at Blue Leaf is unlike virtually
John:every other provider, we actually directly support your
John:clients. Right? So if your clients are on our platform, you
John:don't support them. You don't have to deal with password reset
John:or questions about account aggregation or any of those
John:things. Our team does that for you as an extension of your team,
John:and that's really, really unique. And we've had to do a lot of
John:gymnastics to organize our team to be able to stretch that far.
John:Because if you think about it, that means a blue leaf support
John:team for the same number of customers. Our number of
John:advisors is is supporting somewhere between 50 and 100
John:times more users than your typical, you know, support team,
John:which we're quite proud of.
Sam:And along those lines, simplicity and product design
Sam:and incorporating the behavioral aspect of client interactions is
Sam:very important.
Sam:How do you create a simple, yet effective engagement system with
Sam:blue leaf?
John:Yeah. So if you want to create an easy to use service or
John:product, there's just one word you need to bear in mind.
John:Humility.
John:Now, what do I mean by that?
John:It is about suspending your assumptions about what that
John:client needs or what that user needs, what that adviser needs
John:in our case. You know, we we we have obviously advisers and
John:clients as users, and it is about actually testing that.
John:It's not even necessarily listening to what people say.
John:It's watching very carefully what they do and being humble
John:about what we think we know and what we don't know. And we rely
John:very heavily, heavily on testing in order to do that. So that is
John:that is a huge key because most adviser software is built in the
John:land of shoulds. You should have this, You should do this. You
John:always need this. And what we've found by being humble and
John:focusing on direct research is that most of those are just
John:illusion, just nonsense. The other thing is, and this is kind
John:of the bonus tip if you're trying to make something really
John:simple, focus on the little tiny details. And what I mean by the
John:little tiny details in, say, a piece of software and its
John:interface, little details like what is that button called?
John:What's that menu item labeled, Right. How many clicks do I need
John:to get? That's an obvious one. But the little elements of copy
John:and the language that you use is that the language that your your
John:customer uses, your client uses.
John:In most cases, it's the language that the product team or the
John:engineers thought they should use, as opposed to being careful,
John:very thoughtful, and again, using that as a bit of a
John:research element when people are using your software to figure
John:out is that what does that do what they thought it did based
John:on the name, if not, find another name, right? So that so
John:that the function and the intention are aligned right.
John:Those are those are the two things that I'd say you'd need
John:to do to create really simple software. And what you'll notice
John:is in both cases it requires a lot of extra work. Right.
John:There's a lot of extra research and observation and patience,
John:which is in short supply, particularly in technology and
John:it and it requires you to understand that you're going to
John:be wrong and be willing to iterate and fix things quickly
John:so that that's what we've learned.
Sam:that's a great point. And I can see the parallels from the
Sam:technology side of the equation to even the way advisors are
Sam:interacting in their practice or with their clients. I mean, this
Sam:idea of testing approaches, testing, terminology, testing
Sam:and, getting feedback from clients, what resonates with
Sam:them, what their key pain points are, there is a danger that we
Sam:all make in assuming that this is their pain point because the
Sam:industry tells us, or even assuming that the pain point
Sam:that the client expressed four years ago when they signed up
Sam:with you continues to be their pain point. So I think this idea
Sam:of testing and asking and being humble enough to say that, the
Sam:world is changing and that we need to be aware perhaps of how
Sam:that's changing is pretty critical.
John:That last point is so important. This
John:most experienced advisers have this sort of danger point that
John:they flirt with all the time, which is experience. And
John:experience is the enemy of humility. And what I'd ask
John:experienced advisers to do is to go back and recheck their
John:assumptions from time to time about what clients want. I don't
John:think your knowledge of managing money or anything that doesn't
John:change that much. The environment does, and you need
John:to keep up with that. And I would think about clients wants
John:and needs in a similar way, right? That's the environment
John:you're operating in. You can't simply assume that what people
John:needed 20 years ago is what they need and want today. And most
John:advisors take silence as a cent right silence, because my my
John:clients didn't ask for this. Or they didn't tell me they wanted
John:X, Y, Z. It's not their job to tell you what they want. It's
John:your job to go find out.
Sam:Totally. And as you're talking, it reminds me of an
Sam:experience I had a number of years ago at the firm. I was at
Sam:we were trying to win the CEO of a public company as a client.
Sam:And after many unsuccessful meetings, it was one of my
Sam:investment counselors who figured out that it was the
Sam:CEO's wife that made the personal decisions. So she then
Sam:started to build a relationship with the wife, and that led to a
Sam:long standing, successful billionaire client, all because,
Sam:as you said, she challenged our initial assumptions and she
Sam:looked at things. She was humble enough to look at it and sit
Sam:there and look at it clearly and objectively to say is is what we
Sam:think the case really the case? And I think experience is
Sam:important. I think it is so important. I'm such a big
Sam:believer that you learn more from experience than anything
Sam:else. But if you want to continue to learn, we always
Sam:have to have a degree or a dose of humility that sits there and
Sam:says, okay, is this still the case? Right? Is this still the
Sam:right belief in this case?
John:And experience can lead to assumptions, Right? And to me,
John:one of the greatest business lessons I've ever learned came
John:from a movie in the seventies. The Bad News Bears, Right. If
John:you've if you've never seen it, there's a there's a scene where
John:they talk about no assuming because assuming makes an ass
John:out of you and me. And I replay that an awful lot in my in my
John:business life, because every time I've gotten bitten, it's
John:because there was an assumption that went unchallenged.
Sam:True. Too true. What's the most important lesson you've
Sam:learned about client engagement throughout your career?
John:The most important lesson about client engagement is that
John:they don't
John:register all of the messages you think you're sending
John:that
John:maybe one out of three or four messages lands and they remember
John:it. Maybe if you're really, really, really lucky. So even if
John:you are sending 100 touchpoints a year, they might register that
John:you've sent them. You know, a couple of times a month. I know
John:that sounds insane. It's showing up in your inbox. But people
John:aren't thinking about you.
Sam:Mm hmm.
John:And that's actually the point.
Sam:Mm hmm.
John:Right. No one cares about what you're what you're doing or
John:the things that you've done. They care about their life. They
John:care about their problems. And it's only when you're present,
John:when they need something like what you've got, where they
John:connect the two. Otherwise, it's just noise and it just gets
John:suppressed. So you need to be there an awful lot to make them
John:feel like you're there even a little bit.
Sam:That's an interesting point. So because they're not
Sam:registering to all of your outreach or engagements. one
Sam:solution, as you say, is to send and to end up with the less that
Sam:they're getting. Is there something in the content or the
Sam:type of messaging or how your messaging that can help,
Sam:increase, call it the open rates or the registering rates that
Sam:their clients may have?
John:See, we're not talking about that. What we're talking
John:about is human behavior and human cognition. And I don't
John:know if there's an advisor out there who knows how to change
John:that. Man, we need to talk. I bet there's $1,000,000,000
John:product in that. But this is simply the way that people work.
John:Right. If you think about the example of the Netflix or
John:Facebook services that we've talked about.
John:Even as many messages as you receive. My guess is you can't
John:recount that many. When you think about it, yeah, I see them
John:often, but you have no idea how frequently it just. It doesn't.
John:It doesn't stay. It doesn't stick. Right. What sticks is the
John:sense that that's a service. That I'm connected with, that
John:that's touching me frequently. So, yes, you want to increase
John:the relevance of individual messages? Absolutely. No
John:question. But there's a real limit to how much one message is
John:going to be perfect and it's going to land and everyone's
John:going to cheer. No one cheers for your content. No one's going
John:to cheer. Oh, wow. That is a great quarterly report. Have you
John:ever seen that happen? Of course not. That that is. That just
John:isn't how people work. But people remember how you make
John:them feel. They don't remember the facts. But they remember how
John:you make them feel and how you make them feel when you're
John:sending out value added messages about them, about their money,
John:about problems they may have, about things you've done for
John:them. They feel cared for. They are sure you care about them.
John:And many advisors do a good job at making their clients feel
John:cared for. Don't get me wrong. But this is another way to
John:ensure across the entire client base, if you've got 100 200
John:clients that they feel that this is the way to systematize
Sam:And scale.
John:that sense of caring and scale it. Yeah, exactly.
Sam:On that note, can you give an example of how an adviser
Sam:that you work with has used your platform to transform their
Sam:client service model? What, perhaps might have been their
Sam:specific challenges? And how did Blue Leaf's platform help them
Sam:overcome them.
John:Sure. This is actually an older story, but it's one of my
John:favorite favorites because it was it was well ahead of its
John:time. But the best transformational story that that
John:comes to mind for me about how Blu leaf changed a business or a
John:service model for an advisor is an advisor. You know, $100
John:million firms, a good sized firm, not huge, not not small. Who
John:wanted to simplify their quarterly reporting process.
John:They came to us for automated reporting, very traditional need.
John:And within about six months, I saw a story on the Wall Street
John:Journal, their online edition, that highlights advisors. And it
John:was a story about this advisor who killed the quarterly report
John:and and essentially eliminated the traditional quarterly report
John:in form in favor of more frequent touch points. And this
John:saved that firm. I think what she told me at the time was a 3
John:to 4 man days a month that they were that they were spending to
John:sort of make sure that all of this stuff was was together. And
John:more importantly, she said, was it really ratcheted up their
John:growth and their referrals.
Sam:Great.
John:So you land on the cover of the Wall Street Journal and
John:your business is better off. That feels like a win win win.
Sam:Sounds like it to me. John We're coming to the end of our
Sam:podcast, so I have a few final rapidfire questions for you that
Sam:I ask all my.
John:Sure.
Sam:So number one, professionally, what is the most
Sam:important lesson you've learned over the years?
John:Systems thinking. So everything that we do or operate
John:in is part of a larger system, which is why so many things that
John:we attempt have unintended consequences. And if we start by
John:thinking about the end goal we want and trying to understand
John:the system we're operating in. We tend to be much more
John:effective. There was a wonderful book by a guy named Peter Sanga
John:called The Fifth Discipline. It is about systems thinking. It
John:changed the way I viewed the world. And I would highly
John:recommend it.
Sam:Right. I know the book and I totally agree. It's a
Sam:wonderful book. What is one practical tip you would offer
Sam:listeners keen on applying your insights on client engagement?
John:Pick up on either noisy service as a model or on
John:repurposing your marketing content to be problem solution
John:focused and sending that to your clients. Either one will get you
John:another 25 to 50 touch points a year and your clients will be
John:better off. You could always come to blue if and get some
John:other automated stuff, But. But those things are things you can
John:do right now to day to change the way that you engage with
John:clients.
Sam:It's been a great discussion. If listeners want to
Sam:learn more about you or find out about your work, where do they
Sam:go?
John:Easiest place is LinkedIn. I'm just, you know, John
John:Prendergast is my handle on LinkedIn. We're active there
John:every day and it's very easy to get hold of me there.
Sam:Awesome. John, thank you for joining us today on the
Sam:Future-Ready Advisor podcast.
John:My pleasure. It was really fun.