Breaking Through the Noise: Personal Branding and PR Strategies with Barrie Cohen

Sam Sivarajan: 00:02

Hi everyone, I'm your host Sam Sivarajan. Welcome to today's episode of the Future Ready Advisor. Today, I'm joined by Barrie Cohen, a public relations expert and the founder of BC Public Relations, a boutique agency that helps brands and professionals elevate their visibility, shape their public persona, and build lasting credibility in crowded and competitive industries. Barrie's work with top brands and thought leaders to craft compelling narratives that resonate. But beyond splashy media placements, what she really specializes in is helping people own their story, which as many of our listeners know is no small feat in the world of financial services. Today, we'll explore how advisors and executives can build authentic personal brands, even in a highly regulated environment, and why this matters more than ever in a trust-based business. Barrie, welcome to the show.

Barrie: 01:01

Thank you for having me.

Sam Sivarajan: 01:23

This should be a very interesting conversation. Now, Barrie, you built a thriving PR firm helping professionals and brands distinguish themselves in what is a saturated and competitive markets. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your journey? What drew you into this work? And how did you find your niche in healthcare, lifestyle and professional branding?

Barrie: 01:29

Sure, so I sort of fell into PR unexpectedly. I had a family friend who had a PR firm and gave me a summer internship and I didn't even know what PR was. So that was really my first entry into the industry and I fell in love. I loved how fast paced and exciting it was that I got to meet all these people and socialize and work with clients who really wanted to tell their story. And so after working for other people for a few years, I realized that I really wanted to do this work, but do it differently in a way that was really based on relationships and fit how I wanted to do business. And so I started my firm in 2017 and it's grown from there. And so we work with clients across industries, many in healthcare, finance, wellness, lifestyle. And I think for me, being a creative, healthcare and finance are very foreign to me. And so those are really the only way I could be in those industries. I was definitely not going to be a doctor. I'm terrible at numbers. And so those were two things that like, I was never going to have a career in those, but I was fascinated by those industries and by the work my clients were doing. So being able to work in these spaces, it like gives me entry into those industries. And I get to become a little bit of an expert in them and learn about them with actually not being in those industries, but helping the people who need it the most.

Sam Sivarajan: 02:29

That's great. Now, and I think, you know, on the intersection, I think between PR, financial advice and healthcare, I think you would agree that trust and credibility are critical in for all of those areas. So in your experience, what would you think are the most common misconceptions that perhaps, you know, financial advisors and executives have when it comes to building their own personal brand?

Barrie: 03:08

Absolutely. Sure. I think the biggest one I see is that people feel like they don't have anything to say or they don't have a story. And I think it's really hard when you're in your own business, it's sometimes hard to see the things that make you unique or make you stand out with the competition. And so I think often people feel like, I don't have anything to say or nothing that I say is important or I'm just saying the same things. And I think it takes a professional, PR professional to kind of help you sort that out. And then I think the other piece is the budget. I think people often think that PR is unattainable because it's expensive and it is an investment, but there are ways to do it that are cost effective that can help your business. And so I think it's finding somebody who fits that and fits the balance that you need. But I think there's so much of the work that, you know, CEOs and business owners and finance professionals are doing that are important that people want to know, especially in the world today, right? We have so much going on in the economy and in the markets and like there's ways to weigh in on that that elevates your brand and allows you to be a voice.

Sam Sivarajan: 04:27

Yeah. And I think that's important to, as you say, it's a crowded, it's a noisy marketplace. It's a very competitive industry. And I think in, at the risk of being commoditized, you have to find a way to set yourself apart, in how you're thinking, what your story is, as you say. So to your point, it's important for listeners to realize that there is a story and that they do have something to say and share. But I think the other element perhaps, besides the financial, is that many advisors hesitate perhaps promote themselves because they feel like it's self-promotion, it's inauthentic, it's too salesy. What would you say are some small authentic steps that you've seen work for advisors in a similar mindset to start building visibility and presence without feeling like this is a step too far for their personality.

Barrie: 05:27

Yeah, I always say that you know so many people tell you what you should be doing right and I think when it comes to PR there are so many avenues we have TV and podcasts and print and I think you have to find what feels most comfortable to you because if you're put in a situation where you feel forced it's gonna come off that way, right? And you might feel like you're trying really hard or selling and the audience is gonna see that and so I always say like you have to find what feels good for you some people, some of our clients love doing podcasts, others want to be on TV, others don't, they don't want to be on video. And so I think you have to find the balance of what fits for you and your audience, right? And like we need people where they're at. And so that can look like many different things and many platforms depending on where you want to be. I think it's also very similar to PR where everything is so relationship driven and you have to come to the table without it being transactional. Anytime I meet somebody that's the last of my thought. It's really about making that connection and in the way you're delivering it, your tone, your personality, your demeanor, and people see that. And so I think really having that mindset of I'm here as a resource, as an expert, as education for my audience or for the people who need me, I think that's how you can avoid those moments where you might feel like you're really trying to sell or promote yourself to forward. You you're gonna promote yourself, right? The end goal is obviously to get clients or leads or sell product or a book or something. But I think it's in the way in which it's delivered that can kind of avoid those opportunities and might feel like you're really self.

Sam Sivarajan: 07:06

I love that. I think it's a very important distinction that, to move away from being transactional to kind of adding value. And as you're talking, what struck me is that advisors do that every day, right? When they're meeting with the client or a prospective client, I mean, they are explaining to that client why they should be a prospective client, why they should be coming to me as an advisor. And I, I suspect what you're saying is basically what you're doing one-on-one to tell your story to a potential new client is exactly the same mindset that you're embracing when you're going into branding and PR.

Barrie: 07:46

Absolutely. And you've established that trust, right? They like you, they know you, they trust you. And that takes time, but it's all because of how you do your work, your process, who you are. And you just bring that same energy to the table when it comes to PR. Because we can tell, we can feel when someone's trying to sell us, right? And we usually run away, even when we're one-on-one with somebody. And so I think if you bring the same energy that you're bringing with your clients to any opportunity in the press, that's how you make that connection and people will feel that and that will drive those opportunities for you to get more clients.

Sam Sivarajan: 08:23

And I think that's a perfect segue to what you talk about a lot, that's the power of storytelling, right? So you are telling your story. What makes a compelling narrative for a financial professional and how can they identify their unique story when, let's face it, so much of the industry sounds like the same, right? I mean, when you've got the nuts and bolts of things are generally the same, but that's not where you're telling your story, right?

Barrie: 08:45

Yeah, it's true. No, you're so right. I often think it's best to look at the people you serve in order to tell your story. It's not always necessarily about you. Yes, you might have expertise and things that, you know, degrees and certifications and things that set you apart, but I think it's also the people that you serve and whether that's high net worth clientele, individuals transitioning their business or exit planning or divorce, like all these moments and things that you provide solutions for, right? You have clients that have problems and you provide solutions. And I think when you look at it that way, it makes it easier to identify the things that set you apart. And so I think often looking at your clients and stories, I think anything that's anecdotal is really helpful. That's where we make the connection, right? It's about the humans behind the work that you're doing. And then I think that goes into really blending your personal and professional life. I'm not saying divulge all the things about your personal life, but I think that's people want to know that, right? And that allows you to be a little vulnerable and connect. Like if there are things that you do that are volunteer work or philanthropic that like tie into your business or just something you're passionate about, you you do, you know, you're very family oriented or things like that, that I think are really important to note when you're talking about yourself and the work that you do, because they all feed in together. And I think that's what builds the foundation of who you are. And so I think looking at those different aspects and combining them, I think that's what's really important when it comes to telling your story. So there might be five people on the block who are doing the same thing you are, but what if your approach is different or the process or, you know, how you talk to your clients or you've worked with some clients for 30 years, right? Like there are little things in your business that you might not realize that are really important to pull out. I always say a PR professional will help you with that, but if you're on your own, like write your story down. Write your timeline of how you got to where you are today and look at those things and those elements within your life up until your career now and pull those specific points out.

Sam Sivarajan: 11:02

No, I think as you're talking, I'm thinking that, it is who are you serving and what problem are you solving for them? And I think you had some great examples. Is it estate planning? Is it divorce? And I think to be able to narrow down to say, OK, this is specifically the problem that I solved and why the solution resonated goes a long way towards that branding or that story that sets yourself apart. You know, the, the, the personal element of it is so strong. I totally agree. I think it's the, we, we don't play it, but this is a people business. And so the potential clients want to know who you are as a person and what you have that they can relate to that makes you, the right, the right advisor for them. And it just reminds me, I had a, a recent guest on the podcast who was a nuclear reactor operator who went on to financial planning and advice. And his whole business is a niche focused business that he serves people in the nuclear industry, people that are, you know, science backgrounds or engineering backgrounds, because they resonate with that kind of technical brain that he's bringing, that kind of detail oriented focus. And so he's made as you say, he's made a virtue of his personal background and journey to be able to attract the type of clients that would value that and actually look for something like that in their advisor.

Barrie: 12:43

Yeah, I mean, I think it's critical. We all want human connection, right? We're all looking for that. And I think when you work with someone and you feel like they hear you and understand you and you feel seen by them, I think those are those pieces and those elements that make you want to hire them. You know, as opposed to someone who's just talking at you or giving you lots of numbers or big words or information, like, you know, there's a right fit for everybody. And I think if you look at those, pieces of your business and who you are, I think bringing those to the table are really important.

Sam Sivarajan: 13:17

Now you've worked extensively with individuals, brands and companies dealing with high net worth clientele. For advisors that are serving, call it the high net worth or ultra high net worth market, what strategies do you suggest that they use to kind of position themselves in a way that builds both trust and differentiation in the marketplace?

Barrie: 13:41

So I think it goes back to my point about meeting people where they're at, because when you look at a clientele like this, and we would do this with any target audience we're trying to decipher, you really want to look at what they're reading, what they're listening to, what they're watching, right? Because it looks different for age and gender, as well as high net worth. There's a lot of luxury magazines, right? So they might be in markets where there's a lot of luxury, luxury homes, luxury lifestyle brands, wellness, things like that. So you can just, you can kind of look at those certain opportunities because we know that they're gonna be reading that, right? They're interested in that. They're in certain markets, you know, expensive cities and mountain towns and things like that. So we look at, you know, where we can place your story, essentially. where you would get in front of them the most. And that would be with any type of clientele. We're always looking at, you know, where they're getting their information from, where they would find you the most. I think it's also because that clientele might have so much money and are higher net worth. You really want to, I think, position yourself as a resource. It's less about, I think, also selling, right? They get sold to all the time, I think probably more than others. And so, I think really positioning yourself as a resource, but also building a community. I think, you know, PR is not just one thing. There's press opportunities, but there's speaking opportunities and there's partnership opportunities. And I think really engaging with the community and that community specifically, because they are smaller sometimes and insular where they're really looking at referrals and people they know within their network. And so I think building that community around them and engaging with other individuals in that community who can maybe help you. But I think it's also too about, again, what's the tone? What's your demeanor? It's not so much always what you're saying, it's how you're saying it that we feel the most.

Sam Sivarajan: 15:43

Yep No, totally and I think there's research that says to your point that in our communication is maybe 15% or 20% the words that we use and everything else is your body language, your tone, your personality that comes through in the way you speak. Now, I'm sure you've dealt with lots of clients, including indeed in the financial space. Can you maybe share with us an example of an advisor that you've worked with to kind of get them on this personal branding PR journey?

Barrie: 16:25

Sure. So we have an advisor we've worked with for a long time and she specializes in working with high net worth clients, a lot of women going through divorce. And so when we initially engaged with her and she's been with us for many years now, we were really focused on getting her name out there. And so we were getting opportunities and big publications and things that from a shiny outside perspective were really exciting. But when we really looked at what our goals were, which were to drive clients and leads and get people to hire her, we realized that women were not really reading those publications. We weren't meeting them where they were at. So it was a really great example for us to see, you know, how can we get in front of this particular target audience? And when we started to do the research, we realized that most women who are going through divorce are not sitting and reading a newspaper or watching the news. They're taking their kids to school. They're going to their attorney's office. And so we realized that they're probably listening to podcasts. And this was when podcasts were really starting to become a popular source for information, more than just entertainment. And so we started to look at podcasts that cover divorce. And there are lots of them, which you're probably not surprised about saying there's a podcast for everything at this point, right? And so when we really started to niche down and target these specific podcasts, we started to get her in front of her target audience and started to see people calling her and actually hiring her. And we could see that ROI and see that process and journey, because it's sometimes hard to track that in PR. And so with podcasts, which is a space we've now exploded in and do so much work in for all of our clients, we really started to see success and actually see it drive leads for her. And so I think, and you would probably agree, I podcasts are a great source for financial professionals.

Sam Sivarajan: 18:17

100%. It's a great way to showcase your expertise, your knowledge, but also show the type of clients or audience that you're dealing with. And I love this example as a way that you showed illustrating exactly what you talked about earlier about meeting your clients or your audience where they're at. You use the the traditional glossy magazines or other channels to begin with and realize that your client's clients, that's not where they were. So you had to adapt. But to your point, this is an iterative process. And I think it's something that working with a professional can help you kind of map that and be able to adapt your strategy as and when required.

Barrie: 19:16

Absolutely, and I think a lot of PR professionals have a unique ability to see things that you often don't because you're in your business. And so we can often see maybe where you need to go or end up as far as audience or platforms. And I think there's a lot of positive in traditional media, but maybe that's not where we want to be right now. Or maybe you think you want to be on TV, but there's other ways that might be more beneficial. And so I think it's up to us to provide that guidance and help our clients navigate that because it can be overwhelming.

Sam Sivarajan: 19:46

And I think that's an important point. Media is when people talk about PR, I think immediately media is what comes to mind, and traditional media. Now, I think media coverage can be seen as a nice to have, but it's not a necessity. What would you say is the right approach to PR as a business asset, especially when it's so much broader than perhaps traditional media, especially for service professionals who are relying on trust and referrals as their traditional source of business development.

Barrie: 20:26

Sure. I mean, I would say it's a necessity, but that's because I see it working. And I think, you know, I think it's really important to determine what your goals are when it comes to PR because they look different for everybody. I think some people want it to drive leads and potential clients and calls. Others want to just position themselves as a thought leader or subject matter expert where they're weighing in on topics, which might not necessarily drive business growth. Maybe they already have that. They just want to position themselves to have a higher profile and a more public facing persona. I think that it's critical to have PR because I think it cuts through the noise like we talked about. I think when you're in a saturated market in one particular city or state or area, it can be really hard for other people to distinguish who the right financial professional is, right? There's so many and you might all be doing the same thing. But I know if I were to do some research and one out of the five is giving interviews or weighing in on, you know, what's going on in the economy or what's happening today, I think I'd be more inclined to want to hire them because I appreciate their voice and I see that they're really trying to be a resource for their community or for their audience. And so I think it just lends credibility, visibility, legitimacy to the work that you're doing, you know. You can say to your clients a million times, here's how we do it, here's how I do things. But if people don't know that, then it's hard for us as a consumer to understand, right? Or to distinguish. And so I think when you put yourself out there in a way that feels good for you and you're a voice for a community or an audience that needs your help, I think that would be the distinction that would make me want.

Sam Sivarajan: 22:14

That's a very important point when you talk about the credibility visibility that it gives and you talked about Being clear on the goals, you know, whether it's lead generation or whether it is Building a you know public profile, but I don't think those two goals are mutually exclusive, right? leads to the other. I mean, it may not always be immediate and it may not necessarily be trackable, by generating the credibility and the visibility three months down the road or six months down the road when the person is looking for an advisor that has got experience, for example, in dealing with divorce or dealing with estate planning, etc. there's something or and you reach out at that point, they may actually be some recognition factor that, I've seen this person before and, you know, I've thought pretty highly of them and that triggers the lead or that opportunity months down the road from when you might've created that branding or that, you know, that PR.

Barrie: 23:20

Absolutely. I think it's really good to note that PR is a long-term process. Like you said, it's very different than social media or other marketing where you buy an ad and you can see that conversion very quickly, or you post something on social media and you see those followers. PR is something that takes time. It builds. You have to trust the process. And I think that can be a little challenging sometimes because it's an investment and we want that instant gratification, but it does work. You just have to be open and willing to go along that journey and experience the buildup. It doesn't happen right away. And so I think if you're willing to trust the process, then it works really well.

Sam Sivarajan: 23:58

Yeah, and I think trust in the process, as you say, it's not easy. But to some extent, the advisors have done that in their own careers, right? I mean, they're building a reputation offline, if you will, that is taking time to develop. You don't start in the business and immediately have a reputation. It takes time. And what you know, as a crude analogy, I think what you're suggesting is that you're just transferring that thinking and that process into the PR, whether it's online or media, etc. It is a process, it does take a bit of time, but you're trying to take the reputation that you've created in your own profession, you're trying to, you know, do it at scale on a broader stage, and it just takes its time.

Barrie: 24:45

Absolutely.

Sam Sivarajan: 24:47

Now, one challenge, as you well know, in financial services is that it's a highly regulated environment and there are very strict compliance rules for the firms that the advisors may be working at. How, in your experience of advisors, engaging in effective branding while still managing to stay within these guardrails? Are there any best practices or potential pitfalls you can share?

Barrie: 25:15

Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is we often want to speak in generalities. I think if you can run into an issue, if you're giving actual financial advice, right, we never want to say give X amount of dollars, we're going to get X back or less versus. Right. So I think that's the biggest thing is coming at it from a place of being a resource and educational. not giving actual advice. We're not telling people you should invest in this. You should do this. It's more about that story, right? bringing in those anecdotal pieces, talking about experiences you've had with clients and experiences you've had in the industry, but in more of a general sense without being very specific about who those people are, money or funds or things like that. Same goes if you're looking more on the marketing side, like social media, we have to be, again, very careful about imagery and things you're putting out there. I know that there's a lot of strict guidelines when it comes to compliance about using stock photos and imagery that have money symbols or dollar bills or that right that seemed like really silly, but I understand right we we want to just be mindful of those things and again what you're putting out there and so I think if you're coming out it from a place of Education you're okay. I think you just have to keep that in mind and again bringing it back to the people you serve I think is really helpful because then I think it Mitigates those moments where you might say something that would be an issue. And then I think too, with compliance, we've had to run stuff by them or our clients will run it by them, which is perfectly okay. So I think just knowing that that's the process and allocating time for that. I think if you are just more general and again, about being a resource, being educational, here's what you've seen from your experience. I think you can avoid some of those pitfalls.

Sam Sivarajan: 27:10

I like that. I think you're absolutely right to take it from the education or being a value add instead of providing specific advice to a specific client situation. I think that gets you out of trouble most of the time. And more importantly, advisors are used to being in one-on-one meetings or on a phone call with their clients and they know how to behave. So it's the same. It's not any different when you're on a podcast or in front of a camera or something else, I think those are the same kind of ground rules that you keep in mind. And still, obviously, as you say, before it's released or whatever, if you have to get this through your compliance team to make sure that it's passed as muster, I that's just part of the process. It's not a reason to avoid doing it, right? It's just a reason to start thinking about doing it in the right way.

Barrie: 28:01

Absolutely. No. And I would say too, this is across the board in any industry. If there's something you don't want to say and you don't want it printed, then don't say it. just avoid it. If there's something that you don't want put out there, once it's out in the world, we can't take it back. And so I think with any industry, I would just be mindful.

Sam Sivarajan: 28:14

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's great advice. And it's and it's, it's in the moment, it's being aware, but it's not that hard to do. It's if you're just know that these are taboo topics, or things that you don't want to talk about, you just say, Yeah, I don't have really have an opinion on that, or that's not really the the the appropriate for this conversation, etc. Right. But there are ways to kind of make sure that you're not caught by get deer and headlights in those kind of situations. So Barry, for those advisors who say that I get my clients through referrals, I don't need branding. What's your take? And how do you think that the changing client landscape challenges that assumption?

Barrie: 29:07

Yeah, I mean, I think the harsh reality is that referrals do dry up, right? And so for your entire PR and marketing strategy to be based on that, I think that can be tough because we know that there are lulls where we don't have referrals. I also think that today there are younger and younger individuals who are making more money, coming into money, who might fit more of that high net worth clientele, and you're probably not getting in front of them through referrals simply because we know that somebody my age, even younger, is on social media, is listening to podcasts, is online, where you might not be, right? That might not be a place where you're putting out information. And so I think you're doing yourself a disservice by relying on referrals sometimes because there might be a whole audience of potential clients that you're just not reaching because you're not seeking out those opportunities. You don't know about those opportunities. And so I think, you know, we're also seeing like women who are making more money than they ever have, right? And so maybe that's not a clientele you typically serve or you're just not getting in front of them. And so I think, you know, there are so many potential opportunities to grow your business if that's what you want to do and get in front of other audiences that you might not be in. Referrals can't always fit that or take care of.

Sam Sivarajan: 30:05

I couldn't agree with you more. You're right that there's a all sorts of other channels and I would say every advisor should be relying on multiple channels to diversify, et cetera. But even to the extent that there is referrals and that is a big chunk of your business, I think we're living in a world right now about trust and verified, right? So I get referrals from friends, I ask them for referrals for a contractor or something to do some work around the house. And of course, I value the referral that a friend gives because I trust their opinion, but I still didn't go online to Google and to say what was everybody else saying about this person? Is this worth it or not? And I think for somebody in 2025, not having a certain degree of online or social media presence to support that trust, but verify mindset. I think they're potentially hurting themselves.

Barrie: 31:28

I completely agree and I think it's much harder to build that back up if you haven't been doing it all along. If you've only been relying on referrals and then that dries up and then you're scrambling because you're stressed and you're not getting new businesses. So I think implementing these practices ahead of time and starting to build that up knowing that that takes time I think is critical for those moments when there is a lull or when you might not have as many referrals. I think having multiple sources of business coming in is really important. You have to diversify where you're getting business from. And it's a critical practice, I think, for any industry.

Sam Sivarajan: 32:04

And that's a great point that you made. I think this is a process. It does take time. You don't want to be scrambling when you're running out of ideas of where you're going to get business development. This is some work that you should have put in place well before you need to go to the well, if you will. Barrie, looking ahead, what shifts are you seeing in how professionals are building visibility and influence? What would your recommendations be to forward-thinking advisors that they start doing now to stay ahead in how they market themselves?

Barrie: 32:43

Sure, I I think it goes back to the topic of the digital landscape. I think we're seeing everything being digital, right? Social media, people are not reading physical newspapers. They're reading them in their email, podcasts, YouTube. Like we're really seeing the digital space explode and have opportunities where I think traditional media is still important, but I think really looking at these digital opportunities where again, you can get in front of people in a very different way and more people at once, I think will allow you to stay ahead of your business, allow you to be proactive versus reactive, stay on top of trends and really position yourself in a way where you can weigh in on what's going on in the world and be a thought leader. So I think again, looking at some of these options, if you love writing, I think blogs are great. Start your own blog, contribute to blogs. I think if you're open to video and interviews, podcasts are great. Newsletters are a really interesting concept today where you can blast things out to multiple people and be a part of other organizations or companies' emails. So I think there's a lot of opportunities. I think it's about looking into those. I would say finding a PR professional who can help you because I think, you know, I'll plug that for a second. I think that's a lot to handle, right? But even if not, I think again, looking at what you feel most comfortable with and like dipping a toe and trying it. You know, if you're on LinkedIn, but you haven't been putting out a lot of content, like start a newsletter, see how it goes, write a few, see what the feedback is and ask for feedback. I think same as like if you want to be on a podcast, like put some feelers out, see who might need guests, try one or two. And if you're like, I hate it. I never want to do this again, then you know you don't have to put the time in or you love it and you want to do more. And so I think it's about baby steps. I think it can be really overwhelming when you look at all of the options for PR and marketing today. And I think it's again, thinking about how you wanna tell your story and where and what feels good to you and just trying a little bit. And if you need the guidance, having somebody who can help you.

Sam Sivarajan: 35:16

I love that. I think there's so much to unpack there, but you're right. I think there's so much in the digital media landscape and it's being comfortable knowing what you're comfortable with right just because TikTok videos are a big thing if you're not into doing short form videos, etc. You don't have to be on TikTok, right? You don't have to be on every social media platform that there is. Be on the ones that you're comfortable with. You don't have to be a blogger, a podcaster doing media interviews and what have you. Pick the one or two things that feel right for you. But I think the key message I take in what you're giving, and I couldn't agree with you more, is that, you know, do something that you feel works for you to test it and be out there. And like anything else, you know, including the world of financial advice, you know, getting professional help and support at the right time isn't a bad, is never bad advice. So Barrie, we're coming to the end of our podcast. So I have a few rapid fire questions for you that I ask all of my guests. So if you're ready. Number one, professionally, what is the most important lesson you've learned over the years?

Barrie: 36:10

I think it would be to say yes to everything and figure it out later. I don't mean lie about your capabilities, but I think there were so many opportunities where I probably wasn't ready. And if I was too scared, I would have missed really big moments to move my career forward. So I would say yes and then Google had to do it right after and really teach myself and learn. And I think it's afforded me a lot of opportunities to grow the business.

Sam Sivarajan: 36:50

I love that and I couldn't agree with you more. I think what the the any period of growth that I've had in my own life and career has been moments where I've been distinctly uncomfortable, you know, taking on something, et cetera, but you learn through that discomfort. So that's great advice. Number two, what is one practical tip you would offer listeners keen on applying your insights?

Barrie: 37:02

Yeah, I think it goes back to my other point about starting with baby steps. Really see what all your options are. Engage with someone if you need help. I think you have to want to be out there, right? Like PR, you are gonna be in the public eye and you have to want that. And so it's not for everybody, but there's other opportunities in marketing and PR where you might feel more comfortable. So I think instead of getting overwhelmed, instead of saying I have to do six things at once, pick one, try it. doesn't work, you can pivot and try something else. That's what we do all day long. If something doesn't work, we ditch it, we try something else. And so I think just starting small in something that feels attainable to you and feels good to you, I think that's the best thing you can do to start on your PR and marketing journey and then decide if you need help or not or pivot to you.

Sam Sivarajan: 37:57

Awesome. Barrie, this is, I think, a very timely conversation, you know, as we live in a world that is increasingly crowded and competitive. I think it's very important for professionals of all stripes, but particularly financial advisors to find ways to set themselves apart and to cut through the noise. So this has been a very helpful and insightful discussion. If listeners want to find out more about you or your work, where do they go?

Barrie: 38:37

They can find us on bcpublicrelations.com or find me on LinkedIn.

Sam Sivarajan: 38:42

Awesome. And the listeners will find this on the show notes. So, Barrie, I want to thank you for joining us today on the Future Ready Advisor.

Barrie: 38:51

Thank you so much for having me.